From jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com Mon Aug 12 01:08:54 1991
Received: from relay.tek.com by engrg.uwo.ca;
	(id AA05412) Mon, 12 Aug 91 01:08:28 EDT
Received: by relay.tek.com id <AA07293@relay.tek.com>; Sun, 11 Aug 91 21:04:19 -0700
Received: from wrgate.wr.tek.com by tektronix.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA07291; Sun, 11 Aug 91 21:02:51 PDT
Received: by wrgate.wr.tek.com (5.51/7.1)
	id AA22689; Sun, 11 Aug 91 21:00:22 PDT
Received: by metolius.WR.TEK.COM (4.1/7.1)
	id AA05513; Sun, 11 Aug 91 21:00:16 PDT
Message-Id: <9108120400.AA05513@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>
To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
        fantasci!traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (Joseph "Jo" E Poplawski),
        jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com (James T. Perkins)
Subject: TML Bundle #224: Msgs 2732-2742
Reply-To: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Precedence: bulk
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 91 21:00:15 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
Status: R


TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Aug 11 21:00:10 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #224: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2732  07-Aug-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: Of Droynes and Coyns << d9bertil@dtek.cha
2733  07-Aug-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Re^inf+1: High Speed Projectiles << Last nigh
2734  07-Aug-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Re: Vehicle computers << Rob Dean writes of v
2735  07-Aug-91 Brian G. Vaughan  Starship agility << In _Starship_Operator's_M
2736  07-Aug-91 cmaddox@imsa.edu  Additional Questions about Sword Worlds, Darr
2737  07-Aug-91 James T Perkins   TML Archive Wars << Here's some information t
2738  07-Aug-91 James T Perkins   TML Archive Instructions << Traveller Mailing
2739  08-Aug-91 kirsch@rhea.infor Re : Starship agility (2735) << Brian G. Vaug
2740  08-Aug-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Re: Re: Revised Agility Calculation << Perhap
2741  08-Aug-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Re: (2731) Re: Revised Agility Calculation Fo
2742  08-Aug-91 George William He MT Starship Combat rules... << This is probab

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2732
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Of Droynes and Coyns
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 91 11:09:33 BST

d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se writes:
>   (There should probably be a ^L to protect the young and innocent from
>   reading stuff about Ancients here.)

It didn't work here.  It looks like the message has a ^ followed by a L,
rather than a Control-L.  This one really is a Control-L, inserted using
vi by using the Control-V Control-L technique.  If anyone sees it as two
separate characters (^ and L), then there's a broken mailer somewhere in the
line.
^L

[Ahh, the TML is too clever for you.  In an effort to snuff out
unprintable characters, the TML digester software (urrpp!) uses cat -v
to replace all control sequences, except newline and tab, with the ^X
equivalent (note BSD cat and Sys V cat are ever so slightly different on
this) -- James]

>   If I'm not totally mistaken, the Imperial Encyclopedia lists coyns as one
>type of common artifacts in the entry on artifacts. I agree that it might seem
>hard to reconcile this with the "Coyns was introduced by Grandfather", and the
>fact that some major races that hadn't appeared on the stellar stage appear on
>coyns.

No problem.  The Ancients had coyns, but no coyns with new major races.  The
coyns featuring the new races were introduced by Grandfather.  At least, that's
my explanation.

>   In my current campaign(s) I keep the question open. When one of the players
> said something like "Well, I *know* that they were Droyne because 'Secret of
> the Ancients' says so." ...

I'd be inclined to reply "That book is what your character uses for SF".

I have made up my own history of the Ancients.  Veteran TMLers may have seen
it here before, but I'm going to repost it anyway.  So there!  :-)
...............................................................................

After reading "The Mote in God's Eye" by Larry Niven and James Pournelle, I
was struck by the similarities between Moties and Droyne.  Both are caste-based
societies, and most of the castes match, e.g. Droyne Leaders = Motie Masters,
Droyne Technicians = Motie Engineers.  Droyne don't have miniature Watchmakers
(that we've seen), and their Drones don't have any Motie equivalent that I
recognised, though.  Still, it set me thinking about resolving the Riddle of
the Ancients in terms of Moties.  Anything is better than the official
explanation, so try this.

In their earlier times, the Droyne had the same problem as the Moties.  They had
to reproduce, or they would die.  This led to immense population problems, which
were solved to some extent when the Jump Drive was invented.  "Some extent"
means that it was only a matter of time before the worlds which were colonised
were also overcrowded.  Inevitably, interstellar war resulted, but not before
the Droyne had reached very high tech levels.  Some colonies were wiped out;
others were blasted back to a Stone Age equivalent.  Bases were left behind,
some intact, others ruined.  No two bases were ever the same, as no two Droyne
did the same thing the same way.

Civilisations rose and fell several times before one Droyne, the Yaskoydray of
legend, formed a new society in which the needs of society totally overrode
the wishes of individuals.  If an individual had to reproduce or die, and no
more children were needed by society, tough - the individual died.  The impact
was lessened to some extent by the discovery of a hormone-control drug which
counteracted the biological need to reproduce.  Yaskoydray tested this first on
himself, and when it appeared to be effective, issued it to his society.

Other societies were divided in their opinions of these developments.  Some
welcomed the apparent end to millenia of rises and falls, of creation followed
by destruction.  Others were reluctant to take the step into an entirely new
system.  There was one more, cataclysmic war.  Yaskoydray's side won, but it was
a Pyrrhic victory, as the few survivors were once more reduced to primitive
levels.  Most of the survivors were on only two worlds, Andory and Candory.  A
few isolated groups exist throughout space, but very small groups.

While the survivors of Andory and Candory were struggling to revive their
society, a new factor made itself felt.  Humanity was, for the first time,
also capable of jump travel.  The Imperials were the first to discover the
twin worlds.  Their archaeologists learnt a few fragments of the above history;
enough to regard the Droyne as a potential threat, but only potential.  There
was no reason to exterminate them, but they had to be watched in case they
expanded again.

In fact, there is no such threat.  The concept of the individual being totally
subordinate to society is still in force.  The hormone control drug was lost,
along with much of the Ancients' technology, but the rigid society attitude,
backed up by quasi-religious rituals such as those of the coyns, keep the
population in check.  An individual lives just as long as it is needed by
society, then it dies.  A few choose not to die, but they soon run into the
old problem.  They have to breed, or they become listless and unhappy, and
eventually die anyway.  But so long has it been since anyone bred for that
reason, that none know the cause of their unhappiness; and besides, none but
perhaps another one of these "deathless ones" will have anything to do with
them.

There is a legend which persists, that Yaskoydray is alive and well, and visits
the Droyne occasionally.  The presence of coyns which cannot be otherwise
explained lends some credence.  In truth, although none but Yaskoydray himself
know it, when he first tried the hormone control drug on himself, he overdosed.
But as the need to reproduce or die was nature's way of trying to keep Droyne
from living too long, and as he has overcome that need, he is in effect
immortal.  Which does not make him very happy; even Ancients can get tired of
life when they've seen everything.  Yaskoydray has seen more, and knows more,
than the sum total of the experience of all the human subspecies put together.
He's also slightly cowardly.  He won't commit suicide, or take actions which
threaten him.  Thus he is tired of life, but afraid to die.

Well, there you have it.  Yet another Theory of the Ancients.  Any comments?
One quick side note, as this is inspired by "The Mote in God's Eye"; there
is a star called "The Eye Of God", or more correctly, "L'Oeuil d'Dieu".  (That
high school French had some use, after all! :-)  What a pity this star is on
the wrong side of the Spinward Marches.

- - -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2733
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1991 13:09 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Re^inf+1: High Speed Projectiles

Last night I helped some students with a neat physics problem:
calculate the work done by glaciers in excavating Lake Superior
(avg depth 31 meters, area 1.46X10^5 km^2)  We then converted the energy
(work) into various units:  including 20 megaton h-bombs.  Result:
it takes twenty 20megaton bombs to dig that crater (assuming 100% efficency)
Crater: 31m deep, 216km in radius

Now the good ol` 1Kl of lead @ .1C has 1.3 gigatons of yield:
Crater 31m deep, 389 km in radius.  (quite a shovel eh?)  More that
as Adrian put it 'a couple of nuclear missiles' (65 20-megaton bombs)

Also, If you did your accelerating out of the eccliptic plane by a
few AU or so, chances are pretty decent for making your run without
hitting something.  If you are in interstellar space say a few hundred AU
chances ought to be excellent.  And I agree with Bertil when he say's
for every task there's a vargr insane enough to try it...

But:  on to reaction drives:  If I have an spacecraft with a fusion rocket
that weighs 195 tons.  The thrust is 1911 neutons (195 metric tons Kg force)
{{I hate Kg force}}  the acceletation is 1 G or 9.8 meters per sec.

The equation as I said before is pure Newton:  F=ma,  The equation will hold
at velocity=0 at velocity=1000kph, and at velocity =.1c.  Sorry,
exhaust velocity has NO effect on the final speed of the rocket.

As to physics nullifiers....  (I don't like em!)  The traveller interplanetary
travel funtions as though acceleration is constant.  Thus there is no top
speed limit there to be found.  However, in normal interplanetary travel, you
wouldn't want to go riproaring along for the problem Adrian pointed out, that
the eccliptic plane is too full of junk to move around at .1c.

If we say that maneuver drive decreases the mass of the ship allowing
a ship to have a smaller inertia to push around (ala Larry Niven's 'Gil the
arm' murder weapon/inertia reducer/physics nullifier (tm))  Well, the instant
you shut down power to it your mass would return to normal and your velocity
would reduce down along with your KE.  This would make decelleration
instantaneous.  This does not go with any traveller rules I've ever seen.
As far as I know trav ships function like ordinary rockets in this regard.

I don't like physics nullifiers, I don't use em unless I have to...
Jump drive and anti-grav.

As to the problem of KE being greater than PE of ship...
Well, if the engines are supposed to be able to run for 30 days...  You have
to calculate the final velocity of the ship at the end of 30 days of acceletating, figure out the KE and that Must equal the 
PE.  If we accept KE, then we
must accept the consequences of PE. (ie reduced endurace to 2 days)  if we
accept PE then we must accept the KE (velocity >.1c is attainable)

If this ever came up in a campaign I was running, I would make the players
do all the calculations.  Play up the risks (as Adrian put them), and if
that didn't dissuade them, and they rolled well enough, I would reluctantly
have to destroy a planet.  It would not be long before, The Imperial Navy
combined with the Zhodani, Navy, the Sword Worlds, the Darrians, Collace,
and every single other ship in the entire galaxy was after them.

And frankly, as I would be the ref, it wouldn't take long to catch them.

I imagine the courts would be hard pressed to find deaths painful enough
as penalty for torching a planet like that....

Scott S. Kellogg.

PS Haven't we run this one into the ground?  Take a look at the agility
calculations Rob and I worked on...  Let's move on to something new...

Scotty

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2734
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1991 14:40 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Re:  Vehicle computers

Rob Dean writes of vehicle computers being used in combat.

I have always been under the impression that a model one computer adds
an additional +1 on the to hit task for various vehicles.  I dislike this
as the computer is large enough and expensive enough to add more accuracy
than that.  So, I would say that in tank to tank combat, one would use
the difference in computers as a bonus to hit.  (like starship combat)

But against a target that either does not have a computer, or has one
but is not aware of it's adversary (ie not evading) the computer should
give additional bonuses to hit {More than just the computer model number}

As to range/speed modifiers...  If the tanks are performing above NOE
then I would treat it as air combat (COACC may have design problems, but
the air to air combat seems pretty good

)  Use the MaxAcceleration of the
tank as it's agility.

Actually, I see grav tank vs grav tank not as an extention of modern
tank vs. tank, but an extention of modern helicopter vs helicopter
combat.  (ie hiding, unmasking sensor pods, pop ups, etc.)  So again, I
would use air to air.

But on the ground the rules Rob mentioned seem pretty good.  In NOE tanks
ought to be very hard to hit if you are on level with them.

Gunnery computers:  I thought about this a while ago:  It seems to me that
a +1 to dice rolls seems pretty paltry for something as expensive and large
as a model 1 computer.  Therefore what I considered was installing a
robot cpu with program for vehicle control or gunnery.  All it does is add
a little edge (I originally talked about vehicle control but it could be
extended to gunnery).

This gunnery computer would be linked to sensors (radar/ladar/EMS/Environ)
to take into account the movement of the target and the wind speed for
MD or chemically propelled rounds.  This seems more like the M-1 gunnery
computer than the model one starship computer.

Just rambling...

Scott Kellogg

Beware...  The Horde is coming...

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2735
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 91 12:08:58 -0700
From: Brian G. Vaughan <bvaughan@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Starship agility


In _Starship_Operator's_Manual_, there is an extended description of the
gyroscopic system used to control a ship's heading.  It seems that everyone
has been assuming the extra power used for agility goes to the thruster plates.
Perhaps it goes to this gyroscopic system.  Agility, then, would be properly
a measure of a ship's ability to change heading, rather than direction.

If this is the case, then, I suppose, changing direction of movement, for the
purposes of navigation, would only be a matter of thrusters; agility would be
irrelevant.  Agility would become important in combat, however, in aiming
spinal mount weapons, and in making extremely rapid direction changes, as in
dodging missiles.

But I'm no physicist, so, having suggested this, I'll leave it to those of you
who are.

Brian G. Vaughan

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2736
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1991 16:35:20 -0600
From: cmaddox@imsa.edu
Subject: Additional Questions about Sword Worlds, Darrians, etc.

>
>I have a question for anyone who is familiar with the recent events in the
>Spindward Marches:  
>
>Can anyone fill me in or help me speculate on what has occurred in the 
>Sword World Conferation, the Border Worlds, and/or the Darrian Confeferation
>since the rebellion broke out in the Imperium? 
>
>Greg Horlacher
>[sage@caen.engin.umich.edu]
>
I too am interested in the current happenings within this area of the
Marches. 

In addition I am interested as to how this area faired during and after the
Fifth Frontier War.  I am particularly interested in how the Border Worlds
came to be formed, the economic (depression?) and political (unrest?
tension?) situation in this region.  Another area that I would like to hear
more about is the Federation of Arden.

This is my first post, having joined TML late last week.  I have been
enjoying the discussion.  Please forgive me if I've missed an obivious
archive somewhere.

Thanks!

Chuck

Chuck Maddox    	       	       	       	       	cmaddox@imsa.edu
Computer Technician     	       	       	       	(708)-801-6015    	
Illinois Mathematics and Science Academy
  	       	


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2737
Subject: TML Archive Wars
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 91 17:09:09 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>


Here's some information that may be of interest to all.

VEHICLE DESIGNS: there are now vehicle designs aplenty available from
metolius and sunbane.  I culled out all the designs sent through the TML
and created 24 "packages" containing them.  Look for these as "VD1"
through "VD24".

PBEM TURNS: turn 10.10 and it's admin message have been added to the
archives on metolius and sunbane.  Look for it as "PB15".

MS-DOS FLOPPIES: have just been brought up-to-date with the latest
bundles and packages.  There are now twenty two 720kB, 3.5" MS-DOS
diskettes, which echo the metolius TML archive site contents.  Look for
this information on sunbane as "MSDOS.txt"

README: sunbane's new top-level README, and TOC, is now up-to-date.

ARCHIVE INFORMATION: now lists all the known TML ftp sites and hints at
what's there.  The information follows this TML message.

James
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
    "How many ancients can dance on the head of a pin?" - Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2738
Subject: TML Archive Instructions
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 91 17:09:27 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>



		Traveller Mailing List Message Archives
			 Retrieval Instructions

			   Updated 7 Aug 1991

This handy quick-reference table indicates at a glance what is contained
at the various TML archive sites:

				------- What's there -------
	Site		Method	Buns	Pkgs	Soft	Vehi	Prose
	--------------	------	----	----	----	----	-----
	sunbane		ftp	all	all	some*	some	all
	metolius	email	all*	all*	---	---	---
	metolius	disk	all	all	---	---	---
	ocf		ftp	---	---	---	all*	---
	naucse		ftp	---	---	some	---	---
	potemkin	ftp	---	---	some	---	---
	ucr		ftp	---	---	some	---	all*
	milton		ftp	---	---	some	---	---

	* - indicates which site is likely to be most up-to-date for
	    a particular type of material.

There are several different sites archiving Traveller Mailing
List-related materials.  The primary archive sites are called 'sunbane'
and 'metolius', and there are special-interest archive sites at 'ocf',
'naucse', 'potemkin', 'ucr', and 'milton'.

There are different ways to request archive information, depending on
the site you get the archives from.  'ftp' indicates anonyomous ftp
online file transfer, available for anyone directly connected to the
internet.  'email' indicates reponse and data via email.  'disk'
indicates 3.5" 720kB MSDOS floppies delivered by the postal service.

Also depending on the site, there are different materials available.
'Buns' indicates the TML message traffic, about 10 megabytes in size.
'Pkgs' indicates "Packages" of collected information, primarily culled
from TML archive messages: errata, software, official sector data, and
vehicle designs.  'Soft' indicates additional gaming aid software,
beyond that available in the Packages.  'Vehi' indicates vehicle
designs, beyond that available in the Packages.  'Prose' indicates some
documentation for an alternate history for Traveller.

SUNBANE FTP ARCHIVE SITE

All the TML traffic (Bundles) and Packages, and some additional software
and postscript deck plans, are available via ftp from sunbane, See the
sample ftp session below if you don't know how to use ftp.

	Host name:		sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca
	IP Address:		129.100.100.12
	Directory:		pub/traveller
	Site administrator:	dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin)

The files README and TOC provide a brief/detailed summary of the
contents of the archive.

The site is managed solely by the FTP Site Coordinator: dan@engrg.uwo.ca
(Dan Corrin).  The University of Western Ontario is not responsible for
the materials and opinions stored in the archives.

METOLIUS EMAIL AND DISKETTE ARCHIVE SITE

All the TML traffic (Bundles) and Packages are available via email or
MSDOS diskette from the Traveller Mailing List Administrator,
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.  I do this as time becomes
available, every other week or so, so sunbane is usually the fastest way
of getting information, not metolius.  Sunbane is also better connected
for sending lots of megabytes out across the networks.  If you still
want or need to use the metolius archive service, I will gladly send you
a detailed Bundle Table-of-Contents so you can pick and choose which
Bundles look interesting.

For more information on receiving TML Bundles and Packages on 3.5"
Double-Sided, Double-Density MSDOS-format diskettes, please write the
TML Administrator via email at traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

OCF FTP ARCHIVE SITE

The ocf archive site maintains the consummate set of MegaTraveller
Vehicle Designs.  There are literally hundreds of them available at all
tech levels, sizes, and prices, from Starships to tricycles.  This stuff
eventually gets transferred to the sunbane site, too.  See the sample
ftp session below if you don't know how to use ftp.

	Host name:		ocf.berkeley.edu
	IP Address:		128.32.184.254
	Directory:		pub/Traveller
	Site administrator:	gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu (George Herbert)

NAUCSE FTP ARCHIVE SITE

The naucse archive site contains some private software development
related to MegaTraveller character generation.  The files there are 386
PC MSDOS exeuctables (.exe's).  See the sample ftp session below if you
don't know how to use ftp.

	Host name:		wew.ucc.nau.edu
	IP Address:		134.114.32.3
	Directory:		fixes,misc,gm
	Site administrator:	wew@naucse.cse.nau.edu (Bill Wilson)

POTEMKIN FTP ARCHIVE SITE

The potemkin archive site contains some private software development
related to random alien word generation.  The files there are mostly C
language source, specifically, for Vargr name generation.  See the
sample ftp session below if you don't know how to use ftp.

	Host name:		potemkin.cs.pdx.edu
	IP Address:		131.252.20.145
	Directory:		pub/frp/src/name
	Files:			name2.c
	Site administrator:	bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn)

UCR FTP ARCHIVE SITE

The ucr archive site contains some alternate history for Traveller
documents and postscript illustrations.  This stuff eventually gets
transferred to the sunbane site.  See the sample ftp session below if
you don't know how to use ftp.

	Host name:		watnxt2.ucr.edu
	IP Address:		192.31.146.189
	Directory:		pub/ucrgg
	Files:			thist*,tmap*,tyber*
	Site administrator:	jimv@ucrmath.ucr.edu (Jim Vassilakos)

MILTON FTP ARCHIVE SITE

The milton archive site contains some software written by Jo Jaquinta
which implements the MegaTraveller World Builder's Handbook generation
and graphical display on an IBM PC-type computer.  This stuff eventually
gets transferred to the sunbane site, too.  See the sample ftp session
below if you don't know how to use ftp.

	Host name:		milton.u.washington.edu
	IP Address:		128.95.136.1
	Directory:		public/trav
	Files:			libdist.zip
	Site administrator:	viper@u.washington.edu (Ryan Cambell)

SAMPLE FTP SESSION

A sample ftp session to sunbane follows (lines that a user would type on
are marked with a "*", and commentary begins with a "#").  All the ftp
sites' files are accessed in a similar manner:

    *	shell> ftp 129.100.100.12		#begin the ftp session
	Connected to 129.100.100.12.
	220 sunbane FTP server (SunOS 4.0) ready.
    *	Name (129.100.100.12:dan):anonymous   #prompts for your id, but type
					    #anonymous for archives
	331 Guest login ok, send ident as password.
    *	Password: 		#type yourlogin@yourhost.xx.xx here -
    				#echoing is disabled
	230 Guest login ok, access restrictions apply.
    *	ftp> binary		#set transfer type to binary
	200 Type set to I.
    *	ftp> cd pub/traveller	#chdir to the Traveller area
	250 CWD command successful.
    *	ftp> get bun01.Z	#file name assumed to be same on your host
	150 Binary data connection for bun01.Z (129.100.100.51,2328)
	    (20480 bytes).
	226 Binary Transfer complete.
	local: bun01.Z remote: bun01.Z
	20480 bytes received in .34 seconds (59 Kbytes/s)
				#repeat get command as desired
    *	ftp> bye		#terminate the ftp session
	221 Goodbye.
    *	shell> uncompress bun01.Z	#uncompress the bundle

PACKAGES TABLE-OF-CONTENTS

Packages are an assortment of MegaTraveller Errata, DGP Official Sector
Data, Referee Game Aid Software, many Vehicle and Starship Designs, and
Play-by-email game turns.  These Packages are available from the sunbane
or the metolius archive sites.

MegaTraveller Packages:

	Official Errata from Digest Group Publications as posted on GEnie.

	MT1: MegaTraveller Errata, part 1/2
	    Msgs 163,181 (48837 bytes)
	MT2: MegaTraveller Errata, part 2/2
	    Msgs 180,182 (34247 bytes)

Software Packages:

	SW1: Gensec, mapsub and subsec.csh
	    Msgs 58-59,69-72 (21784 bytes)
	SW2: Expanded System Generator
	    Msg 106 (52597 bytes)
	SW3: NPC and Travel Times
	    Msgs 238,250 (9297 bytes)
	SW4: MegaTraveller-compatible gensec, mapsub
	    Msg 318 (45216 bytes)
	SW5: Weather Generation
	    Msg 469 (39585 bytes)
	SW6: Cosmos Starship Generation
	    Msg 777 (32170 bytes)
	SW7: Expand UWPs, Weapon Availability
	    Msg 1112 (31494 bytes)
	SW8: Misc
	    Msg 384,719,780,823,899 (35358 bytes)
	SW9: (9 parts) Sysgen4 Sector/System/World Generation Suite
	    A comprehensive suite (445031 bytes)
	SW10: (2 parts) X11R4 Subsector Viewer
	    View & Print Subsectors on your X11 workstation (70602 bytes)
	SW11: Trade and Commerce Generator
	    Generate & Print available cargo/freight lots (27388 bytes)
	SW12: Random Name Generator
	    Generate & Print pages of random names (27388 bytes)

Offical Imperium Sector Data from DGP on Genie:

	SD1: Corridor, Reft, Riftspan Reaches, Verge (53827 bytes)
	SD2: Empty Quarter, Trojan Reaches (45128 bytes)
	SD3: Delphi, Glimmerdrift Reaches (48816 bytes)
	SD4: Deneb, Ley (53800 bytes)
	SD5: Solomani Rim (28457 bytes)
	SD6: Old Expanses (30366 bytes)
	SD7: Hinterworlds (30967 bytes)
	SD8: Spinward Marches (30987 bytes)
	SD9: Daibei (31927 bytes)
	SD10: Spica (31924 bytes)
	SD11: Diaspora (32155 bytes)
	SD12: Alpha Crucis (34422 bytes)
	SD13: Vland (35000 bytes)
	SD14: Fornast (36298 bytes)
	SD15: Massilia (36477 bytes)
	SD16: Gushemege (37423 bytes)
	SD17: Core (38139 bytes)
	SD18: Antares (38626 bytes)
	SD19: Dagudashaag (39127 bytes)
	SD20: Lishun (41827 bytes)

Vehicle Design Packages:

	A few classic Traveller and many MegaTraveller vehicle designs
	(from meson gun cruisers to submarines to garbage trucks).

	VD1: Msgs 33,36,37,41,45,48,49 (20779 bytes)
	VD2: Msgs 217,219,228,389,465,466,467,477,589 (30266 bytes)
	VD3: Msgs 736 (38106 bytes)
	VD4: Msgs 772,873,874,888,1047,1051,1291 (30030 bytes)
	VD5: Msgs 1379 (49086 bytes)
	VD6: Msgs 1381,1398 (45024 bytes)
	VD7: Msgs 1424,1435,1438,1514,1530,1531 (45449 bytes)
	VD8: Msgs 1549,1553,1554,1556,1569 (45966 bytes)
	VD9: Msgs 1573,1578,1581,1601,1602 (36545 bytes)
	VD10: Msgs 1604,1608,1616 (39316 bytes)
	VD11: Msgs 1635,1639,1644,1646,1648 (43244 bytes)
	VD12: Msgs 1658,1663-5 (40012 bytes)
	VD13: Msgs 1666-7,1670-1,1675-6 (44371 bytes)
	VD14: Msgs 1678-9,1682,1686-7,1689 (45687 bytes)
	VD15: Msgs 1691-2,1726,1888-9,1906,1919 (43574 bytes)
	VD16: Msgs 1920,1954-6,1961,1966-7,1983-4 (42629 bytes)
	VD17: Msgs 1985-6,2016,2030,2106,2121 (34835 bytes)
	VD18: Msgs 2191,2205,2261,2266,2279 (44326 bytes)
	VD19: Msgs 2309,2318,2324,2333,2335-6 (41567 bytes)
	VD20: Msgs 2344,2346-7,2349,2355,2361,2365 (43783 bytes)
	VD21: Msgs 2368-70,2372,2375,2379,2384,2399,2445,2455 (45631 bytes)
	VD22: Msgs 2478,2517,2521,2553,2577,2579 (40612 bytes)
	VD23: Msgs 2600 (38462 bytes)
	VD24: Msgs 2623,2637,2642,2653 (16360 bytes)

TML Play-by-email game turns:

	Richard Johnson's TML PBEM play turns and administrative notes.

	PB1: TML PBEM intro, turn 0.0, turn 0.1
	    Msgs 787,802,835,837,845-6,848,855,859
	PB2: TML PBEM turn 0.2, 0.3, 1.0, updates
	    Msgs 905,935,975,1065-6,1095,1106
	PB3: TML PBEM turn 3.0, 3.2
	    Msgs 1131-3
	PB4: TML PBEM turn 3.1, addresses, turn 4.0 (some)
	    Msgs 1134,1146,1169,1180,1198
	PB5: TML PBEM turn 4.1 (rest), 4.2, 10.1, 10.2
	    Msgs 1199,1200,1566,1593-4,1613,1625
	PB6: TML PBEM turn 10.4, admin stuff
	    Msgs 1707,1721,1818,1822,1837,1852
	PB7: TML PBEM status, turn 10.5 (most)
	    Msgs 1999,2023,2025,2027
	PB8: TML PBEM turn 10.5 (rest), 10.6
	    Msgs 2029,2156,2182
	PB9: TML PBEM turn 10.7, admin stuff
	    Msgs 2234,2248-9,2251
	PB10: TML PBEM turn 10.8a
	    Msgs 2254 (first part)
	PB11: TML PBEM turn 10.8b, R-alpha natives, whining, admin
	    Msgs 2254 (second part),2267,2274,2304-5
	PB12: TML PBEM turn 10.9A, 10.9B
	    Msgs 2306,2317,2325,2327
	PB13: TML PBEM turn 10.9D
	    Msgs 2328
	PB14: TML PBEM turn 10.9C, 10.9E
	    Msgs 2329,2330
	PB15: TML PBEM admin, turn 10.10
	    Msgs 2692,2693

For the exhaustive index to the "bundles"; that is, all TML messages
ever sent (emits about five 45K mail messages), please send mail to
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
    "How many ancients can dance on the head of a pin?" - Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2739
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1991 16:25:40 EDT
From: kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de
Subject: Re : Starship agility (2735)

Brian G. Vaughan writes :

>In _Starship_Operator's_Manual_, there is an extended description of the
>gyroscopic system used to control a ship's heading.  It seems that everyone
>has been assuming the extra power used for agility goes to the thruster plates.
>Perhaps it goes to this gyroscopic system.  Agility, then, would be properly
>a measure of a ship's ability to change heading, rather than direction.

Excuse me, but you can not use gyros, to change the movement vector of a
ship. The only thing you can do, is to turn the ship around is gyros. You
can handle the gyros a fixpoint, around which the mass of the ship can be
turned. After the turn, the ship can use its thruster plates, to change
his movement vector. The advantage of the gyros, is the possibility to turn
the ship, without changing its movement vector. But the agility is 
nevertheless dependent on the maneuver drives, because only this drives
can change the ships movement vector. And only the change of the movement
vector is necessary, to dodge attacks (i.e. take a Ship with a hull
configuration of 5 (ball). It can turn around its gyros, to change the
direction in which the maneuver drive shows, but it will not shorten its 
profile against attacks. It must use its maneuver drive, to dodge incomming
attacks).

>If this is the case, then, I suppose, changing direction of movement, for the
>purposes of navigation, would only be a matter of thrusters; agility would be
>irrelevant.  Agility would become important in combat, however, in aiming
>spinal mount weapons, and in making extremely rapid direction changes, as in
>dodging missiles.

On purpose of navigation, its much better to use the gyros. You can manipulate
them much more exact. And, using  the description in the Ship's Operator
Manual, the gyros have enough mass, to turn a ship in fractions of a second.
The more mass, and the more rounds per second a gyro has, the faster you
can turn the ships mass. Small thrusters for changing the ships heading
are slower and even not as precise (think of the fact: every use of a thruster
to turn a ship left, needs a use of a thruster to stop this turn).
In so far you are right to say, gyros have affects on agility, but the
maneuver drive is much more important.

At last a big disadvantage og gyroscopes :
They are big masses, which rotate on thousands of rounds per second. If
a gyro ever leaves its location, it will destroy the ship in quaters
of seconds. (Hey Scott Kellog, it could be a work for, to calculate
the energy which would be freed ? ;-))

Comments ?

Juergen

- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Juergen Kirsch
Institut fuer Informatik, Universitaet Bonn
Germany
kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2740
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1991 12:39 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: Re: Revised Agility Calculation

Perhaps I wasn't very clear with my definition of terms in the
agility equation

"Power Required for maneuver drive": this is the amount of power which is
normally drawn by the manuever drive
(I don't have my books with me but I think it is (per ton of drive)
65MW for anti-grav drive
70MW for Thruster plate drive  (this is for every 13.5 KL of drive)

"Excess Power": Is the amount of power left over after all systems have
been powered (Sensors, Weapons, Drives, Environ, Comm, etc. etc.)

The "Excess Power" can be negative.  The Weapons may draw more power
than is available after all systems have been powered.  In this case
the power is being diverted from the maneuver drive to the weapons
enabling them to fire.  This will have an adverse effect on maneuver/agility.
(note that the weapons may not draw more power than the total output
of the power plant)

Thus the equation:

		(Power req for maneuver drive + "excess" Power)
Agility=	-----------------------------------------------*10
			Loaded Weight

Ya dig, Baby?

Scott S. Kellogg
The Horde is coming.........

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2741
Date:     Thu, 8 Aug 91 15:46:59 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (2731) Re: Revised Agility Calculation Formula

Adrian Hurt writes:
 
> > Ok, High Guard functioned like this:  A ship with power plant-2 and
> > maneuver drive-2 automatically becomes agility=2.
> 
> Only if it has no energy-consuming weapons, screens or computer (i.e.
> only missile and sandcaster armament, computer Model 2 or less, no
> screens except a black globe).

Your are, of course, correct, but I didn't want to make the explanation
any more longwinded than necessary.

> >						    In order to have
> > a functioning maneuver drive, you had to have a power plant factor
> > equal to the maneuver drive ...
> 
> At least equal to the manoeuvre drive.  The power plant rating could be
> greater than the manouvre drive rating, so you could use weapons, screens,
> computer and manoeuvre drive.

See above. (-8

> > Rationalization:  The 6G ship's power plant is being drained away
> > from the maneuver drive and it is not putting out 6-G's, it is putting
> > out only 1G.
> 
> Correct, unless the 6G ship uses its emergency agility of 6G (and has a large
> enough power plant to supply its 6G manoeuvre drive). 
> 
> > In view of the MegaTrav design rules this does not translate unless
> > we do the following:
> > 
> > 	(Power required for maneuver drive + "excess" power)
> > Agility=--------------------------------------------------- * 5.4
> > 			Unloaded Weight
> 
> I'd substitute "Power available for manoeuvre drive" for the entire top line.
> Power available for manoeuvre drive = output of power plant - power used by
> other things.  This is presumably what the MT manual means by "excess power".
> In fact, this is precisely what it means. In my manual, it says "Excess power
> output is the power left over from the power plant after all of the craft's
> other components have been powered". This is a big surprise--something in the
> MT Referee's manual does make sense! :-)

While I agree with you, of course, it is not so obvious as you think it is, at
least to several other eminent members of this group with whom I have had this
discussion.  As a result, I thought it best to spell it out.

> > Agility may not exceed maneuver drive rating.
> > (No more agility=6 1-G drive ships...)
> 
> Perhaps they should have stated that explicitly.  This was certainly the case
> in High Guard.

Ah! But they didn't, because they didn't intend for it to be the same.  That's
why we've got Joe Fugate explaining that the agility rating is your ability
to 'alter your heading' for pity's sake, rather than the ability to alter
your maneuver vector.  Since you can rotate all you want (with three degrees
of freedom, no less) and still end up presenting a 'ballistic' rather than
a maneuvering target, I reject this view utterly.

> > Note that if a ship is powering weapons the "excess" power can be negative
> > thus subtracting from the ship's ability to maneuver.  This is what Rob
> > refers to as "Double Dipping".
> 
> Not by the above definition.  Excess power = power output - power used by
> systems other than manoeuvre drive.  If this is negative, you need a bigger
> power plant or smaller systems.  If it is zero, the ship's agility is zero.

I use this terminology to make it explicit that I mean exactly what High
Guard meant, as opposed to certain folks around here (-8, who feel that
the power used _by the drive_ should be included, leaving excess power as
anything over and above that normally used by the drive (overloading!).


The whole question of "What is agility?" is tied in pretty closely with the
question of whether or not the combat system is rational as it now stands
(give or take a little).  If we view ships as 'hard to hit', then it would
make sense to spray your weapons all over their potential positions, which
is why a 30 laser battery does the same damage as a 1 laser battery, if
both manage to hit.  Now, if ships are spraying automatic weapons fire (-8
all over, then to be hard to hit, you obviously must need to make a substantive
change in your projected position, which means using the maneuver drive
to accelerate rather than just 'dodging' a little bit in place.  Does that make
any sense to anyone?

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2742
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 91 17:16:36 -0700
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: MT Starship Combat rules...


	This is probably whistling in the dark, but I have some questions for
anyone who has actually used the MT starship combat rules, or someone
with a recent printing of them (if the bugs were fixed).

	I've applied the erratta changes to combat tables, but have a few
questions about the Explanation of Damage Results.
	One: do the 'crew sections' rules work, and if so, why? 8-) (they don't
make any sense to me, esp. in terms of damage)
	Two: For damage to Power Plant, the rules say 'reduce UCP factor',
obviously a direct copy from High Guard.  Unfortunately, the craft design
rules no longer _use_ the UCP for powerplant rating or design.  How do you
handle PP damage?

[you may assume that the hypercard ship combat program will be a bit delayed.
as much as I hate the concept of vaporware, there are some critical problems
with the rules that I need to resolve before I start coding again... sorry]

- - -george william herbert
gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

